Ep. 61 Amy Luttrell On Burnout, Reinvention & Exposing Expectations

[00:00:00] Meegan Care: Hey my friend, welcome to the podcast. So great to be with you again this week. A little while ago my great mate Amy Luttrell was speaking with me about an article that she read and it was all about how people had created, success done. Things that had left a mark on our community, on our planet, and they’d done them at the later stages of life.

 From their 40s, to their 50s, to 60s, 70s, and onwards,

and so that is really what sparked this conversation on the podcast today. So I’m chatting with Amy, and we are talking about reinvention in midlife and beyond. What happens when we do step back, whether it’s because something has changed for us physically, psychologically, developmentally, we step back.

And I know for me, I had a fear when I changed the structure of my business, that by stepping back in that way, it kind of meant that it was all over. But actually the stepping back was a pause before a reinvention, and I didn’t want it to be all over, but you know we have those fears that when we create change I think for me, it’s when I was into being 50s and onwards, because of the programming that we have, there can be this fear of, well if I, if I step back now, if I make a change now, am I running out of time?

And The hypothesis is, is that no, there’s no way we’re running out of time, right? That we can reinvent ourselves at any time of life and actually midlife is a beautiful time to reinvent who you are and what you do. So we talk a little bit about the, the process of reinvention and what goes on in our subconscious brain.

You know, the roadblocks to creating change and Amy talks About why learning to mother herself ultimately created for her a life that she could live from a far more creative place. And we talk about what that actually looks like it’s a beautiful conversation that I think opens up perspective for us in this midlife stage.

I really loved speaking with Amy on this topic and I hope you enjoy our conversation. Amy Luttrell. Welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here. Tell us about who you help, what you do.

[00:02:47] Amy Luttrell: Yeah. Cool. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here with you, Megan. So I am a business and life design coach, and I have a holistic approach to the way that I work with individuals. So with both men and women and supporting them to grow aligned businesses and also be well, feel well in their, in their personal lives.

I have a company called Be Well and Good, and we also help purpose driven brands. Be well and do good in the world. And so the well part is really about individual well being and as I think, you know, it’s not a one size fits all approach. So working with humans on an individual level to, to find out who they are.

What season of their life they’re in and and design a life that feels well for them. The good part is focusing on humanity and the impact they want to have in the world. And yeah, how do they design their business to really align with that impact? Yeah. That’s me.

[00:03:56] Meegan Care: And you do some amazing work in our community.

And so for our conversation today, where are we headed? So you’ve, you’ve read something that we both find super interesting and we’re going to unpack that a bit and see where it goes, right?

[00:04:12] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, yeah. So I love the work that you do, Megan, in the world. We have a friendship, relationship, and also have been colleagues for some years now.

And I I find it really interesting the work that you’re doing with others. Around women and midlife and and so I was reading a, an article the other day from Forbes. Well, it wasn’t from Forbes. I think it was from medium, but it was about the Forbes 2000 and 2300 most powerful woman list. And 80 percent of those women on that list were over 50.

And half of the women on that list were over 60. And it was really showcasing these women. In the prime of their lives and in the career and, you know, ultimately in the creative expression. And I found this super interesting. So I contacted you and said, would you be keen to have a conversation about this?

Yeah. Yeah. In that article, they spoke also about, you know, 42 percent of women take a step back at some point in their career cycle and and looking at a woman’s career as a long game, like a, you know, rather than a game of snap, you know, that card game snap, it’s quite fast and it’s looking at, you know, we could look at it as a game of chess and it’s a slower game.

And a more intentional reflective game.

[00:05:43] Meegan Care: Yeah, because I think a lot of women that I work with and you know, I’ve had waves of this as well. In midlife we well sometimes there’s perimenopausal symptoms and menopausal symptoms which make doing work and business the way we’ve always done it very difficult to carry on in that way.

And so then we’re faced with a sort of a, a time in our lives where it’s like, well, okay, so this isn’t working anymore. What am I going to do? So we see a lot of women quitting work, jobs, careers, changing, stepping back. And I think the piece that I’m super interested in right now, well, there’s a lot, but one particular piece is what do we make of that?

Do you know, like if we step back kind of like I did with my clinical practice, you know, I got to that point where it was because I was going through perimenopause, it was too much for me to see so many clients one to one, day after day, week after week, and I stepped back. And at that point, I did go through a process of, is this it?

Is this, shall I step right back? Or am I going to sort of reinvent within the same wheelhouse of what I do? And so that long game piece requires, like, you have to contextualize it differently, I

[00:07:08] Amy Luttrell: think. Yeah, I agree. And something that you said in all of that, I think, is that word reinventing. Yeah. And, you know, what, what does that mean?

What does that look like? And that’s something that I really notice in, not just the woman that I work with in my line of work who are, you You know, midlife age, but also women who are, you know, I’m 37 women who my age as well, who are, you know, kind of getting to that place where, you know, I’m generalizing here, but they, they’ve got a family and their kids are kind of getting to that school age and the, you know, and things, things are changing for them at that stage of their life too.

So I think there’s this idea of, you know, well, I know that that reinvention. We have this opportunity to reinvent ourselves through many stages of our lives as women. And so with reinvention, what I find interesting, and I think I can probably reflect this more back to myself and my own lived experiences is that has been a, a process of discovery and discovering parts of myself that I may not have I’ve never felt like I’ve felt known up until this point of feeling challenged in my life.

And, you know, and I think that’s where that can kind of be the inner conflict, right? Is that, okay, I’ve got, it’s like you say, when you were in your career and you did it, you did it a certain way for a certain amount of time. And then you are faced with this challenge. In your life, probably internally, right?

The way that you’re feeling it was maybe more difficult to do it that way, or it wasn’t feeling as as easeful or as familiar. And so, yeah, what, what was it that you did when you noticed that for yourself? That’s a question I have for you. What was it that you did when you noticed that for yourself coming up?

And, and I’ll just

[00:09:17] Meegan Care: add to that. It was at a very, what made it more difficult, and I think women will, people will be able to relate, is that it was at a time where I’d really worked pretty hard to build up my clinical practice. And that was at a stage where. I had a wait list. I was really busy. I was loving working with my clients.

I was kind of at that point was like, yeah, this is really working. And then my nervous system and my body are like, yeah, it might be working on the outside, but this is not. Working for our inner environment because of whatever was going on with my physical body. And so what I did initially was fought against it, you know?

Like we do, and we’re like, no, this is not what I’ve planned. This is not what I’ve thought. How I’ve thought things are going to go and so pushed back against it Question myself Question my health, you know, I just need to get my health up to a better level so there’s lots of fixing going on. So this is that that Resistance

stage.

Yeah,

[00:10:25] Amy Luttrell: that’s it The inner resistance around and I think what also is behind that is the unknown and it can be a really. Scary process to be, especially, you know, because our career is what how we make a living. It’s how we pay the bills. It’s and so if we are faced with this challenge where it’s where we feel like we can’t keep doing it the way that we’ve been doing it, then what next?

What do we do then? And I think that that can be a really scary process. And so what I noticed happens. Not just for clients, but for myself is that we push through and and we suppress the, the, the emotional process that comes up for us. We can, and it’s like you say, there’s, what can I do to fix this? So it may be you know, searching externally for.

What is it tools or solutions? Yeah, that I that I gonna fix it for

[00:11:25] Meegan Care: us. So I can carry on the way things were and are so I can keep the status quo. Even though there’s this internal driver pushing in a different direction. That was what I did for sure.

[00:11:40] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, to do. Yeah. And so I think like, I I love your podcast and I, and I listened to it a lot.

And I think as a 37 year old woman, it’s, I feel so resourced for when I get to, you know, the, the stage of and so that’s something that I’ve been interested in is that I, I kind of, I’m, I’m interested to when it comes to that time for me of what that experience will be, because obviously there’s going to be physical changes that come up and I love.

The information that’s on your podcast and out there around, you know, what are the probably more practical things that we can be doing for ourselves. And then there’s that kind of deeper layer that you speak into Megan around, you know, mindset and even subconscious stuff that happens that we’re not even really aware of.

And that’s something I think maybe we could talk about today is that, cause it can be sort of abstract that stuff. It’s abstract,

[00:12:36] Meegan Care: but it’s so powerful, right, in our lives, and, and yet it, because it’s abstract, it’s hard to identify, because we’re used to looking at physical symptoms and external issues, but actually what if there is this Wave of change that’s emerging in your system and not to make it sound all spiritual and woo woo It could we could talk about it through the lens of Developmental stages, you know, I think that that that is what starts to shift as we’re in that perimenopausal phase That’s the opportunity But it’s also in that is the challenge

[00:13:18] Amy Luttrell: Yeah.

Yeah. And so going back to that word reinvention and, and these these developmental stages that we go through that. Yes, we could call it a reinvention, but it’s also it’s. Because it’s developmental, it’s actually a natural process. And what can be make it feel like it’s not natural as often the The narratives.

That we may have inherited or you know, taken on through society that this is wrong or that I shouldn’t be feeling this way or, or you know, seeming this way, or, you know, there’s, there’s this, all these kinds of narratives that layer and layer and layer over. That part of ourselves that I think has you know, we can gather all this information, but we do as woman have a part of ourselves that is like an inner wisdom without it sounding too spiritual, but there is an inner wisdom that has actually also been passed down to us and we have inherited.

And so that’s what I’m really interested in is how do we tap into that? That inner wisdom. And I hear a lot in, because I do work in the, the wellbeing space and I have done for many years now, and I’m really interested in kind of demystifying wellbeing, you know, and also spirituality in, in some ways we have many a conversation about that , but I do wanna demystify for people and may and, and make it accessible for mainstream, you know, make it accessible for everyone.

And so. You know, we hear a lot in marketing and at the moment around slowing down and resting and all these things, which are really important practices for everyone. And in particular woman going through midlife, you know, it’s, if there’s, and, but in some ways I think slowing down. Can almost make us feel more anxious and more kind of dysregulated, especially if we’re used to being, you know, living in a certain way for so long, slowing down to kind of have you experienced that?

Have I experienced? Slowing

[00:15:33] Meegan Care: down brings up more sense of dysregulation or anxiety.

[00:15:39] Amy Luttrell: Yes. Yes. 100%. And I think especially I noticed that cause I used to teach this stuff a lot when I was a yoga teacher in a past career. And I used to talk a lot about slowing down and resting and it wasn’t until I went through lived experiences of you know, trauma and, and real kind of big tragic events happening in my life that yeah, it’s.

It gave me this insight into how difficult it is to slow down and to rest when you you know, your nervous system so blown out. And for me and my experiences, I was, I was terrified to slow down. And so that was way too much for my nervous system, which is, you know, really, it was, that was, they were really difficult experiences, but I felt, I feel really.

And I’m grateful for those experiences because it’s given me insight into yeah, other people’s experiences of yeah, of that. And so that’s slowing down going back to that word. I’m interested in it at the moment. I think I’m trying to reframe that word into being more intentional in my life. So I actually quite like to have lots of things going on.

And and I’ve, I’ve gone through burnout before I’ve spent, you know, like three months. That time was spent in bed because I was so burnt out that I, yeah, my body was just at a point of no, we have to stop. And and the recovery process of that was, you know, a good 18 months of, of changing the way that I was doing things.

But I really got to know myself through that process. And actually. I do like to have lots of things going on in my life, but I could see that I was doing it with a lot of expectation, huge expectation on myself, but little intention. And that was, that was interesting to me. So I flipped it and I started to take Action with a lot of intention.

And what I mean by intentions that I was very clear on why I was doing it. Like I said, at the beginning with the work that I do, it’s the, the well part, I was really clear on what made me feel well, not just the kind of you know, Healthiest. And exercise and that kind of stuff. But what made me feel well in my relationships and my environment.

And then the good part, what, what I want to do good in the world, what sort of impact do I want to have on humanity? What kind of impact do I want to have on my children and my family and my friendships and that kind of thing. And so that intention really grew. And what I did is I listened and listened and listened.

And my expectations. So what they did internally for me, especially with my inner critic and, you know, and that internal dialogue was that I stopped shaming myself. Yeah, because I was, you know, my inner critic is relentless and it still is. I just have more of a grasp on it now, more of a relationship with it, but I was shaming myself every time, especially in my career.

I was shaming myself. Every time I didn’t meet an expectation and that got really hard when, you know, shit hit the fan and things in my life were really challenging and I would like burnout and I was forced to slow down.

[00:19:12] Meegan Care: That’s what I find super interesting. If I can tie the threads together is the expectation.

So we tend to it’s been platform to us, right? This is how we’ve learned is that we. Gather our motivation from our expectations, right? And you talked about the shaming when we don’t meet those expectations. And so then shame becomes very subtle, but a layer that motivates us. To take action and what I hear you talking about is actually flipping that and somehow uncovering a deeper or different level of Intention so there’s that because often I think when I when you know, you all know this too, but when we teach around slowing down and people are like, well, how the fuck do you do that, right?

How do you slow a car down that’s going at 100 Ks an hour and I haven’t been taught how to. So the opening up to intention from that different layer is a whole different way.

Okay. Of living our

life.

[00:20:21] Amy Luttrell: And I think it’s a whole different way of slowing down. Well, yes, because it’s sort of what it’s doing is it’s not actually, we’re not putting the focus on slowing down and the slowing. Yeah. Which is, which I think it’s also, you know, I work with Corporate groups and workplace groups.

And these people are, you know, that, that don’t, a lot of them have a big impact on humanity too. And they, and it is fast the way they’re working, but it doesn’t mean that that’s unhealthy. Because if there’s, if, if the, if the intention’s there, yeah, and then it’s, I, what I’m noticing is when the intention’s really there and we’re really clear around why we’re doing this, then naturally.

Our internal, so it’s the, yeah, that internal environment, the nervous system does begin to slow down and what also slows down, which is such a cool part of this process is the internal dialogue is the inner critic. And I think that’s what exhausts us is that, you know, actually as human beings, we do have you know, I know that our energy levels and that sort of stuff changes depending on you know, what we’re going through in our life and like midlife energy levels and things like that change.

But I think if we slow down the endocrinic, if we quiet that down and it’s replaced with. Intention and, and, you know, and empowering words to ourselves of why we’re doing this. Then naturally our nervous system starts to slow down and and it’s been, yeah, I think that the, going back to the expectations part, where do those expectations come from?

You know, and, and that’s that’s if we, you know, around reinvention or discovery and discovering ourselves through our challenge and through this, you know, this, this new newness that we’re experiencing in our bodies and our, in our lives, what I’ve found helpful is to it’s. To learn how to parent myself through it, or even to mother myself through it, because a lot of the expectations that I hear in my head seem to be coming from, you know, maybe expectations that I’ve inherited from, from my mother or from my grandmother or from, you know, from woman that I was around in my early life.

And, you know, all amazing woman and really hard working woman, but there was the, the expectation seemed to be quite relentless for me and for my body and for my nervous system. And so as a way to yeah, to going through burnout and, and spending a lot of time with my. My mind and my thoughts and learning, you know, really hearing the way that I was speaking to myself,

I had to reframe it because it was becoming exhausting. So I want to also say that I didn’t do this alone and and what I found really helpful for me was, was therapy was working with a psychotherapist. Yeah. Because I did have, I’ve had many tools in my box and my toolbox, and I had been, you know, like I said, worked in the wellness industry for many years, had had a long practice of meditation and yoga and all of those things.

But I had never worked with a, a psychotherapist before, and I’d never really gone back to my origin story. And, and, you know, and got to know what what the narrative was that I was playing in. And I call it a narrative because it was really about I, it was, you know, in my head, it was, it was a lot about Amy.

And so it was a story that I had, you know, I had in my, in my head or in my mind that I kept kind of replaying for myself. And so, and what I mean by replaying for me was that it was, burnout was something that seemed to keep showing up for me in my life. Yeah. Through, and especially when there was like, you talked about you know, these, these kind of seasons or cycles for a woman.

So that’s when it burnout would show up for me when I would go through a, you know, like a developmental season, whether it be you know, like going from sort of puberty years and to, and to my early twenties, there was burnout showed up for me. And then again, when I had kids. And then again, burnout came up for me when I had gone through big loss when my parents died.

So, yeah, so there was, so that’s where I think, you know, and maybe when I go through menopause or perimenopause, you know, I can see that that’s probably going to be another. Invitation. Yeah,

[00:25:31] Meegan Care: it’s a similar season to those big changes of puberty, of loss, of having children, those big life changes. I hear about burnout being talked about as being a very personal thing. It’s a negative thing. It’s something, you know, we have to recover from. But actually, not, not but, and actually, It’s an invitation to open up to something new within ourselves and how we meet life.

[00:26:03] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, well, because I think in my experience, my, I think it definitely was a invitation to. Stop and just stop, stop doing what I was doing, you know, and, and to, and to change it, but it took a few times for me to actually, because as soon as I went, I don’t want to accept. Yeah. Yeah. And because I, like I said, I like having a lot of things.

Going on, but what it was is I’d like to be really busy because when I’m busy, I didn’t necessarily have to get to know myself at a, at a deeper level. And that’s where going

was hugely transformational because it gave me a a safe space. And it was, it’s a process to get to really get to know myself. And ultimately learn how to mother myself because I’m an adult now. And, you know, my mother is not going to mother me now. Cause I, and so that was where it was learning how to mother myself again, which meant reframing the, the internal dialogue that was going on in my mind.

And

[00:27:18] Meegan Care: Yeah, it’s not easy though is it? I mean you’ve been on this journey for all of your, pretty much, all of your adult life .

[00:27:27] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, I don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s, it isn’t easy, but I do think it can be easier than what we. Yeah. Because it doesn’t have, like you say, I’ve been on this journey for my, you know, my adult life.

I got into this work when I was really, you know, when I was in my early twenties, but I like to demystify this path of wellbeing. And so how do we make it? Easy for ourselves is that it’s we take one step, you know, and so two I listened to, I watched a documentary on Quincy Jones. Have you heard of Joe?

Yeah. He’s this awesome music producer and, he spoke about, he was talking about origin, his origin story, where he came from, you know, as a child, his early life. And he said, to know where you come from is to know where you’re going. And so I thought I loved that line because it’s, it spoke to my creative process in a way is that I think if we can be curious about Who we are, where we come, which is ultimately where we came from.

We, we then, it gives us a lot more access to where we want to go in this life. And so if you’re going through, so speaking to your listeners, right. Who I’m, you know, who I’m midlife or and going through all these changes in themselves. The first step could be. You know, what, what can I do today to get my, to get to know myself better?

Yeah, and you know what that might be. For me, it’s often, if I want to get to know myself better, what I’ve noticed is I take that even further. Where in my life am I withholding permission for myself? So getting to know myself might be, I’d actually like to go on that hike. By myself and spend some time in nature.

And then, you know, my thoughts are saying, well, no, you can’t do this because you’ve got to, you know, clean the house or you’ve got to go to the supermarket and do that. So you’ve got to do this for this person, or you’ve got to often for me, it’s a lot of lists around doing things for others. And then I, you know, that, that’s one way of talking to myself, but what I’m doing there is I’m withholding permission to go and do something that I want to do.

So it’s giving myself permission to go do it.

[00:29:55] Meegan Care: So there’s often a massive justification as to why we can’t do that.

Why we can’t give ourselves permission. And I know that very well inside myself. So how do we overcome that? Or. Find a way around it, I suppose.

[00:30:11] Amy Luttrell: Yeah. So it’s exactly. And I know that this is this, cause this comes up with, you know, career. If we go back to the career path, which is a big decision, right? So it’s how you start to do it is by giving yourself permission to do.

Think little things like go on the wall. Yeah, because the more you do that, and that’s why I spoke to something like going on a hike or, you know, not going to the supermarket today or. Declining that invitation to go out for dinner with a group of people or, you know, those little things that I know they’re not little, because sometimes they can feel really big, but the more we do that, the more we’re training our brain to make decisions on the big things.

And, and, you know, I do, I have clients. That own businesses and companies or their own business partnerships, and they, they get to, you know, they’re in midlife, they’re going through all these changes, and they want out. And that’s a big decision, you know, and so we, when we’re working together, we may be working together over 12 months.

I’m not going to tell, you know, when they’re not going to make that decision at the beginning, but what are the steps? Because they know inside, they know in their heart, they know in that, that part, that wisdom place we spoke about, they already know that that’s. The decision that they want to make. Yeah, they may not need to make it, but they want to make it.

But what can they do for the nervous system? You know, how do you prepare yourself to make those big decisions? Well, it’s, it’s giving yourself permission on the little things first. And, and I, and I’d go as far as to say, try and do that every day. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And, and so, you know, what would your, what would, what would your little decisions be Megan?

And in your day, you know, if you’re giving yourself permission to, here’s

[00:32:08] Meegan Care: a prime, very basic mundane example, right? So I’ve been cooking dinner for people for decades now and it gets to be really tiresome. And so there’s some nights where I’m like, I just. I just do not want to cook dinner right and and other people in the house cook now as well because they’re a bit older but it’s so interesting because I have this expectation and that has been templated down to me that dinner should be served right you’re not It’s not correct to not have dinner and on the times It’s so stupid, but it’s like this is the unconscious bias That’s going on inside our brain and on the times where I’ve gone.

Look, I just I’m not I’m out I’m just not doing it. Who cares? No one around me cares. They don’t mind. It’s like whatever but I have this internalized expectation that that’s my, that’s one of my jobs that I need to do. So just going, you know what, actually just sort yourselves out tonight is one of those small permissions that has been helpful for me.

And not, not when I’m necessarily in bed really sick either, just because I’d rather do something else with my time. Yeah.

[00:33:27] Amy Luttrell: Yeah. That’s a great example. And I think,

[00:33:31] Meegan Care: oh, I want to add to that. I think what we struggle with is that we don’t know what we want and what we desire. So we haven’t, you know, because When we’re young, we desire the book and the doll and I really want to go play with my friends and often that gets shut down.

You know, don’t be greedy. We can’t do that today. We’ve got work to do. We’ve got, and that’s normal. That’s a part of life, right? But we’ve learned to shut our desire and our want kind of energy down and out. And then we get to this age. And someone like me talks to clients and I’m with, or you, and we’re, we’re wondering, you know, what do you want from your life?

What do you desire more of? And we’re very disconnected from that.

[00:34:22] Amy Luttrell: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. And I think it’s, yeah, it’s not as easy to say what do you want and to say it. And so it’s, I think it’s easier to know what we don’t want, so we can sometimes start from there.

I don’t want to be making dinner every night anymore. I don’t want to be, you know, I think in a lot of the time we feeling a certain way that we don’t want to be feeling this way, you know? And so that’s it. So we can start to say, okay, what do I place? Good starting place. And then I think desires really interest me because it’s a yeah, I work with people a lot around.

Goals, especially in business, it’s, you know, there’s, they’re setting goals and they’re wanting to reach a certain place. But what I like to flip goals as is desires and desires is really a state of mind. And so if you can access a state of mind, then what happens with the desire is we can’t really desire what we don’t already withhold within us.

You know, and what I mean by that is that if you, you can often what we, what we’re desiring is a, a, a state of mind or a state of being, it’s a feeling. Yeah. If I earn this, you know, if I get this about 10, 000 or if I get this a hundred thousand or if I get. You know, if I get this relationship, or I get whatever it is that we’re wanting, it’s generally because it’s going to invoke a feeling in us.

It’s going to make us feel more happy or successful or free or whatever it is. So what I’m interested in is, is are you able to have those feelings before you actually get the thing? Are you able to access that desire before you actually get the thing? And I know that’s hard when you’re feeling like shit or you’re feeling crappy.

And you know, that’s kind of all encompassing. And I haven’t been through. Menopause or perimenopause yet, but I have been through really intense challenges in my life that have yeah, it’s at certain points made me bedridden and, and all I had access to in those moments was. A desire really truly.

And I know that I have, I’ve, you know, I’ve been on this journey for a long time and I’ve been meditating for a long time. I’ve probably been practicing this, but I do believe that we can, if we do these one step every day, giving us permission. Every day to do one thing for ourselves, even just the littlest thing is, you know, sit at that cafe in the sun and enjoy your coffee or your green juice or whatever it is, but giving yourself permission to feel good ultimately to do something that makes you.

Feel good, then it trains this part of our brain, which is then, you know, I’m going to go further to say that it trains us to access our desires in any given moment. Yeah. And it takes

[00:37:27] Meegan Care: Physical actions in your external world. So I spent a lot of time working on my mind and my mindset, my emotions, meditation, therapy, all of that stuff.

And, but then I needed to add in the external actions. As well, because that’s such an important piece. Yeah.

[00:37:45] Amy Luttrell: Exactly. So the external actions are what? For you?

[00:37:49] Meegan Care: Oh, exactly. Like you said being out in the sun, going for a walk, taking a dog for, taking the dog for a walk in the forest, not just around the streets, taking the extra 20 minutes.

To go, hey, let’s actually be in nature today because that changes the state of my body for the rest of my life. And, but when I first started doing these things, I, there was a part of me that was like, well, that’s all right for everyone else because they can make time for it. This is the victim, the martyr, right?

And me was saying, yeah, that’s all right for everyone else, but I just don’t have time. That you don’t understand because my life isn’t structured like yours. So I can’t do that. And that’s been a really prominent voice for me in my life.

[00:38:39] Amy Luttrell: Yeah. Yeah. Me, me too. Time and money. I think of my biggest I guess you could call them roadblocks and I mean, they’re very real because it’s like, we don’t have endless amounts of money flowing in or or endless amounts of time.

And and so yeah, going back to parenting, mothering myself, you know, what, what is, how is, how do I want to talk to myself? How do I want to speak to myself? Because. You know, I had even like with, I can’t remember any woman in my life as a child and as a teenager going ever speaking about menopause or perimenopause or I can, I don’t have.

Any woman in my life as a, in my early life, that was around me who were resting or you know, or even showing me this idea of a career as a long game, you know, or what I was exposed to were hardworking women and really, you know, incredible women in their careers, but really hardworking women who were also hardworking at home.

Yeah. Dinner was always on the table, you know, all of, and yeah, all of those things were done. So that’s, that there then shapes my internal narrative. And when I went to therapy and I went to my origin story, and again, it was a story, it was a narrative. It doesn’t, it was subjective of what I was saying is that it was really that was really embedded in it, that, that things are quite linear and that we.

You know, and that it’s hard working and shot a woman shows up and it’s this and so my expectations are huge and they still are the expectations I have on myself. And so reframing it is. As intentions. And so we, you know, you talk about the external actions is that it’s the, why am I doing this today?

What is the intention? And it’s a practice. I have to work on it. Yeah. You know, I do. It’s not like it’s just there. It gets, it does get easier, but it’s, I have to be intentional. Show up to it. It’s, yeah, it’s, and that’s, it’s a really interesting

[00:40:59] Meegan Care: one ’cause I think you have to come off of autopilot. And it’s almost like there’s a sort of sigh or an opening inside, and then I can come back to my kind of sense of intentionality.

But if I’m running or autopilot, then it’s like, that has to be done, that has to be done, that has to be done, I need to get this out, da da

[00:41:19] Amy Luttrell: da da. If we’re making choices based around what we want, if we’re making choices based around our desires, you know, it’s for me as a woman. And I’m going to be really honest here.

It’s still feel selfish.

Yeah. Yeah. So I still feel, you know, I can talk about this stuff and have, you know, all these kind of ideas and philosophies and that kind of thing. And I love it, but there’s a, there’s a strong part of me that feels like if I go and if I give myself permission to do what I want, I feel selfish. I feel naughty even, and I feel like I’m I’m doing something wrong and I’m going to get in trouble.

And that’s quite an interesting

[00:42:06] Meegan Care: and relate to that. So then when you notice that, how do you relate to that? What do you do?

[00:42:16] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, I, I try and mother myself. That’s what I’ve been doing. How do you

[00:42:22] Meegan Care: mother yourself?

[00:42:24] Amy Luttrell: Like a, like. I would mother my daughter, you know, like that’s, that’s how I’ve got it. You know, I’ve got a three year old daughter, Sophia.

And and I think, you know, I’ve got a son as well, Max who’s seven, but definitely when, I don’t know if it was where I was at developmentally in my life when I had my daughter or because she’s a female and I’m a female, but I don’t, I don’t know what it is, but when I had. Sophia, I really started to it became less about me and I talk about when I, you know, I’m talking about impact and my why is I actually saw her and I thought, yeah, I want her to have a different narrative than I do, you know, or that I did.

And so how can I do that? And so it became. Something larger than myself then, which I think, you know, may have made it easier. So I know, you know, as, as woman and I’m generalizing here as well, but it’s the, we do have, you know, there’s this kind of nurturing element. And that it’s, it can be hard to make it only about ourselves, you know, and we might think that’s selfish and that kind of thing.

So can we make it about humanity? Can we make it about each other? Can we make it about, you know, our children or that, that seemed to be helpful for me. To, yeah, to really get serious, I guess I got, you know, it’s, I got serious with myself and was like, this way I’m speaking to myself is. Not conducive for my wellbeing at all.

And and yeah. And what, how can I, how do I want to mother Sophia? Well, first I’m going to try and do that to myself. And. And it’s, yeah, it wasn’t, it’s, it’s not easy, but it’ll, but it is accessible and it’s, you know, just, just taking one step at a day one step at a day. Yeah,

[00:44:25] Meegan Care: I think that nurturing piece or that wanting to be well piece individually gets because of all the influences out there.

Now it gets distorted into me going for, and there’s nothing wrong with these things, they’re great, they’re fun, going for a facial, getting my nails done, going shopping. But what we’re talking about is that actually giving the nurturing, the resourcing to yourself. Yeah. Like, it’s the relationship with the self, which I don’t know what that sounds like, but that is what sustains us.

And renews and revitalizes us through all these different stages of life, even the most difficult ones.

[00:45:15] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, you said it. It’s, it’s, it’s the resourcing of self. Yeah. And we can use external resources to, to help with that, to help us you know, have those, that internal resource. But I think, you know what, I really think that it takes.

Challenge to access it . And so I, I hate

[00:45:40] Meegan Care: that that has been true in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I really do. ,

[00:45:45] Amy Luttrell: but it has, yeah. Yes. That’s it. So I think it’s, you know, we have the like, and there’s so many of those stories that around, you know, like the phoenix rising through the ashes and transformation and the butterfly, you know, coming out of the cocoon.

And, and so it is a metamorphosis. Yeah. In a sense, and we kind of do have to go through challenging experiences in order to have that sort of that contrast to grow, to grow through it. But what we do know to be true as you know, you and I are in this conversation and we both agree with this. So what that shows me is that I’m not alone.

And if, and if I can talk to you about it, like what women have done for eons and we sort of lost it. But this, you know, this ability to come together in spaces and, you know, with all the nuances of maybe, you know, and I’ll speak to it jealousy or competition or all those things, which are really normal and have kind of in a way being imposed to us if we’re talking about career.

Imposed on us around, you know, like we do, there is competition present and, you know, we do have to make money and we do have to provide and we do. So all that stuff is really present, but when we can come together and sort of take those roles off and just come together and, you know, our lived experiences what, what it is that we’re.

Living through or dealing with and and I think that we do, we, we start to, what would you call it, Megan? What do we, what do we start to like, what do you say? Cause you facilitated a lot of groups and work with a lot of women together. What do you see happen when women come together and they share?

Yeah, it’s incredible.

[00:47:31] Meegan Care: There’s this space for vulnerability. And when a woman or a person, right, it doesn’t matter about the gender, when someone can witness us in that and not try and fix us, not demean us, not try and put us on another path, it changes so much for us internally.

[00:47:52] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, I think

[00:47:54] Meegan Care: so. Yeah, it’s like, then there’s nothing to fix.

Like, I think when we have that, and you will see that in your coaching as well, when we have that reflected back so cleanly, in a way, without the other, all the other person’s stuff, as much as possible, something inside us, Yeah.

[00:48:20] Amy Luttrell: I think I love that the vulnerability and the witnessing being witnessed and I, and that’s what you know, I think that what I see happen for clients, especially when they when they can.

Yeah, I guess, you know, be vulnerable, which sometimes can take a while, you know, because it’s sort of like, what is even being vulnerable? You know, it’s like kind of sort of getting to know what it is,

[00:48:42] Meegan Care: your feelings in your body. And, yeah,

[00:48:46] Amy Luttrell: but then being witnessed. in that by someone, by other, but also being witness in that by themselves, what tends to come through is.

Creativity, which is, this is the interesting, this is the stuff that I love because when we you know, we’re going through challenge, we are, problems are coming up, right? We’re sort of, we’re dealing with these problems where it might be, okay, well I can’t, I don’t have the energy to work the way that I was working.

Or you know, I’m thinking this relationship is. You know, we, we start to be faced with these problems that’s happening in our lives and, and if we, you know, if we sort of low on an, in a resources energy, our minds, you know, going at us and there’s all these expectations. It can be really difficult to access creativity and creativity is, is, is the tool is the resource for solutions.

And so if we can allow creativity to be more organic, which is what it starts to do, especially if we’re, you know, we’re going through these developmental changes, which naturally our creativity style will start to change as well. And so there’s this, it’s, it’s really trust.

I think that. What I like to do is encourage people to, yeah, to let go of all the expectations around how they used to do it or how it used to come up because that’s kind of a, it starts to become like black and white thinking like it’s, well, I do it this way and this is how I’ve always done it. And this is, it’s almost like allowing it all to kind of dissipate the ways it used to do it.

And, and then, and notice. How it’s showing up in different ways. Again, what are moments of creativity? Maybe in that conversation you’re having with your partner because you’re

crafting a different way of being in your life. And that is that is creative living. And so we’re starting to, you know, just stepping out of the box of creativity being, you know, an art process or you know, like a, like a like it

[00:50:44] Meegan Care: can be. Living creatively,

[00:50:46] Amy Luttrell: right? Living creatively and that’s what, you know, I call myself a life design coach as well because it’s designing your life and really you do when you have gone through these changes and things are looking different or feeling different.

Yeah, we’re accessing, you know, we’re tapping into design. How are we designing our day? How are we designing our relationship? How are we designing our business or our job? And it actually can be fun. Even though, you know, there’s going to be some challenge and there’s going to be some, yeah, difficulty or leading things go endings in a way it can be yeah, we can include play and fun into it.

[00:51:26] Meegan Care: So let’s pull the threads together as we, as we complete. This is such a good conversation around mothering ourselves, reparenting ourselves, creativity and those developmental stages that we go through. What’s showing up for you as we complete, I mean, what, what it’s shown me is that more than ever, I’m 53 now.

But I also feel like I’m nowhere nearing the end of my trajectory in terms of my creative output. And right now that looks like my counseling and coaching business, and that’s going to morph and change. But I’m, but I’m got this big, long, potentially, we never know, right? Potentially this long window of creativity ahead of my life.

[00:52:19] Amy Luttrell: What I think I’d like to, how I’d like to wrap up this conversation is that yeah, I’ve really encourage you, me, everyone to embrace your lived experiences midlife and perimenopause, menopause being one big important. One, because, you know, for, for me, I’m going to be selfish here and, you know, what, what I want, what I desire is to be surrounded by women who are older than me, who resourced enough to not go through this perfectly.

And that’s, you know, I actually want the opposite, to be resourced enough to, to feel safe to expose their imperfection. Through this developmental process so that they can share it with me. And I can feel empowered by them so they can share it with my daughter. Because I’m going to be sharing it with her and she can be empowered by that.

So as you can see this, it’s this opportunity to not only, you know, start to discover ourselves and start to rewrite, you know, our, our. Yeah. Expectations, our narrative to, to parent ourselves, mother ourselves, but it’s this real opportunity for us to shift the whole narrative and have impact on humanity.

So that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s actually my vision, you know, and I really share that with my whole heart. Because I think, you know, when we do start parenting ourselves, when we start to mother ourselves, we start to be the mother that we, you know, we’ve always desired to have, or we can give that to ourselves.

I think what we do on a, you know, on a larger we start to mother the, the world, the earth, you know, we start to. And it’s yeah, it’s, I just really respect your work, Megan, and think that it’s. It had so much impact on woman.

[00:54:22] Meegan Care: Thank you. Yeah, likewise to you. And I’ve, I am seeing the narrative changing in our community.

And of course that’s happening in other communities and that starts to ripple out into the world. So it’s a very empowering time. So Amy, if they want to hear more of your goodness, your inspiration, you’re such a. An incredible creative person. How can they track you down?

[00:54:49] Amy Luttrell: Yeah, cool. So you can find me on Instagram, good old Instagram and Facebook and my Instagram page, Facebook pages, be well and good creative group.

And you’ll see a lot of what we’re doing there. And then if you you can follow us on www. bewellgood. co. nz. That’s where you can see all the work that we’re doing in the world. Yeah, that’s beautiful.

[00:55:11] Meegan Care: It’s me. Thank you so much for joining us today, Amy.

[00:55:15] Amy Luttrell: Thank you for having me.

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